The tandem of Redeyes and Lenzman returns for a second edition of throwback beats, with an EP entitled ‘After Hours’. It continues the celebration of early-2000’s liquid funk, following on from the ‘Wonder Years’ EP released in 2022 on The North Quarter.
This cerebral pairing has developed a winning chemistry – leading to high-quality production and incorporating strong doses of their intertwined nostalgia. Having lived through the inception of liquid funk, they’ve carefully carried the genre through to the present day with their own productions, and the music signed to their respective labels. They deeply care about the art form and its preservation – which is clear when you consider their work to date.
Of course, label ownership involves profit and loss statements, filing taxes, investing in a marketing strategy, and whatever else – but, to these guys, the money-making aspects are a by-product of the main goal at play. Both Julien Salvi (Redeyes) and Teije Van Vliet (Lenzman) cite their prevailing purpose: to release music that’s written ‘from the heart’.
It’s no wonder that ‘After Hours’ and ‘Wonder Years’ hark back to a simpler time when phones were bricks, and the biggest threat to music was Limewire. This was a time when the equation was much more straightforward – when quality music was the key success factor, and labels could bank on that.
As the D&B landscape changes at pace, underground labels trying to establish without mastering the games of streaming and social media will continue to struggle. But there is hope. Redeyes and Lenzman are two examples. UKF sat down to chat through their niche, and how they preserve the craft and push it forward, while still making ends meet.
Tell me about the music your labels put out?
Lenzman: Over the years the label has broadened its output to include a larger selection of styles and genres, but the ethos from the start has always been: ‘music from the heart & soul’.
I’ve valued giving artists the freedom to express themselves without boundaries and to venture into genres and styles that they are passionate about, but perhaps not known for. I would say that the niche now is just heartfelt music from the soul, regardless of sound or genre.
How about Five Alley, Julien?
Redeyes: We are releasing music we love from artists that have the same values as us – and those values are a similar sort of thing as with TNQ, it’s music from the heart. Everyone who has been working with us knows we are still a young label with a limited budget, but they also feel related to the causes we are engaged in, working with charity and just putting out music with soul and no artifice.
Music from the heart – what does this mean in regards to inspiration in the studio?
Lenzman: On a primal level I try to search for progressions and sounds that make me feel something. But in terms of actual inspiration, other than life itself, I draw inspiration from genres that I’ve mentioned a lot in interviews: Hip-hop, jazz, (neo) soul and electronic music that draws on these genres as well. But, sometimes it does depend on a specific project.
With the After Hours EP some of these influences above were drawn on, but really it was our exploration of early 2000s liquid funk. And in that respect, it’s a continuation of the Wonder Years EP that came out in 2022. We both had a lot of fun on that project, and again on After Hours. We were aiming for a certain energy and imperfect “roughness” that those early liquid lunk tracks had. I guess you could say it was the jungle influences embedded in some of those tracks.
Redeyes: We are both the same age, with similar backgrounds. We met in the mid-2000s, and without speaking a lot, we knew we had a lot in common. I feel when we are writing music together it’s kind of the same – we don’t need to talk a lot about it, it’s just: “Let’s do some soulful D&B with a kind of jungle energy” and that’s it. We share sketches and we go on, back and forth. So this EP is telling our story, where we came from, what we used to love and listen to, but also what we like to play out in clubs – energetic soulful music.
It’s great you two got to meet and share that same musical approach. How have you seen the music industry change over the years since you met?
Lenzman: I think it has changed in different ways, in different aspects of the industry. I would say that on the “club” side of things, for example, the small-to-mid-sized club experience has lost ground in a lot of cities. It’s more focused on festivals, big clubs and warehouse events, and a lot of those have similar lineups repeated over and over.
There’s a lot less space for smaller, upcoming artists to cut their teeth… to gain experience and to build a fan base. It’s hard for anyone other than upper echelon artists, but in some ways that’s also true when it comes to other important aspects of the music industry. On the one hand, with Bandcamp and streaming, it’s very easy to cut out the middle man and you can easily self-release music. But to actually get seen and heard, it’s a different story. A lot of that depends on playlist additions on streaming platforms, radio play, press features and track premieres.
At the same time, social media has also changed a lot where you either need to pay to get interaction or post videos of yourself. It means that if you don’t have the type of personality that gets traction on social media, your chance of exposure is almost none. It’s disheartening that artists are now required to have these types of skills to succeed. Especially considering that a lot of the most talented artists seem to have introspective personality types.
Do you look to remedy some of this by looking past social media skills, and trying to view it purely through a ‘quality of music’ lens?
Lenzman: I never really consider social media or anything other than how the music makes me feel. Whether it’s something I’ve written myself or if it’s something I’m looking to release. I suppose I just believe that if it makes me feel a certain something, it’ll likely have that same effect on like-minded listeners out there.
Redeyes: To me, even just adding ‘industry’ to any other word is a vibe killer. I don’t want to be part of an industry, I just want to make things I like, and sometimes if I like it enough, to be able to share it with other people by releasing it. I’m not really interested in what other people do or what the industry does because I – and everyone at Five Alley – just want to do our own thing. Some people may like it, and that will make us happy for sure. But we are always trying to think artistically first.
What worries you the most about our scene?
Redeyes: I feel like the underground has turned into the mainstream. What I loved about this scene was that it was always different to everything else, in every aspect. But now, it’s just a different BPM than EDM, but with the same codes.
But some people are still doing their thing despite everything else, like dBridge or Calibre, – sharing their art and being different. We need to have a bit more of mystery and stop turning ourselves into terrible advertising actors.
Lenzman: I guess most of the above worries me. For me, music has always been a refuge from mainstream-ism and societal pressures. These have now infiltrated pretty much every underground scene and changed it for the worse.
At the same time there are a lot of people that don’t let it affect them. And there are also people that are making music from the soul, and that aren’t social media influencers that are having success. I’m not really preparing for it. I’m just going to keep my head down and maintain… doing it my way: keeping it close to the heart. The recent developments have made me more resilient than ever.
Can you recall any time recently where you’ve adapted your approach, based on the changing landscape?
Lenzman: More recently I’ve stopped doing vinyl with The North Quarter. Covid made production very difficult and the end product more expensive for the fans. Brexit amongst other things has had a massive impact on production and shipping costs. All in all, it was just something I wanted to try, partially to become more flexible with releases. I may return to vinyl someday, as it’s a format I love, but for now it’s on hold. I also have been experimenting with breaking releases up into singles to get a better spread over time.
Let’s hope vinyl can return as a viable option for smaller outfits like yours. On this topic of decisions around money – how do you filter out the trending, short-term money-making motivations, and find ones that are more true to you?
Lenzman: I’ve felt somewhat of an outcast for a lot of my life and it’s something I embrace. I never wanted to be part of the mainstream. The commercial side of things is secondary to me. Deep down I just want to make beautiful things happen, ideas, artwork, music, friendships, team chemistry.
Redeyes: I didn’t start a label thinking that I would make money off of it. We are just happy to have enough to reinvest in the next releases – that’s all that matters. The four of us (Tom, Queenie, Eva, myself) are just looking for that great human experience where everyone helps each other – all with different skills and backgrounds. Like our friend Dan Stezo used to say “it’s not about the destination, it’s all about the journey”
“Money comes secondary” – longevity can only come from that attitude I would think. But, where is money made in running a label these days?
Lenzman: It’s mostly from streaming – but then so much power is now in the hands of the tastemakers at the streaming platforms that decide what gets picked up for big playlists. Some money comes from merchandise sales, and Bandcamp is as important as ever.
Redeyes: I think it’s adding every little thing together, a bit of streaming, a bit of merchandising, some royalties, some Bandcamp, some physical releases – and if you are lucky enough, doing a label night that is successful. I think the more you can invest in a release, the higher chance you are going to make a bit of money from it. But it’s also very time-consuming in the end.
I was chatting to DLR about his business, and he mentioned community building on places like Patreon – where fans pay a subscription for exclusive benefits – was one way forward. With streaming overtaking and music sales declining, have you wondered about any other revenue streams for your labels?
Lenzman: I have wondered about it and Patreon was one of the things I considered, but the reason I opted against it was that it gives a lot of pressure to have to put out monthly ‘content’ (music, sample packs, that sort of thing). I know everyone is different with their process, but in my personal experience inspiration and art isn’t something you can always rely on and force out in a certain timeframe. It needs to simmer. Sometimes it comes, but sadly it often also goes away.
I wouldn’t want to be in a situation where I’m ‘trapped’ having to give Patreon supporters something and having to rush things out, compromising the art. I feel more comfortable keeping things on my own terms, for better or for worse.
How would you define success for your respective labels?
Lenzman: Having a catalogue that you can look back on with pride. Working with artists that grow wings and start successful labels of their own. The lasting friendships that have formed within the label family.
Redeyes: Continuing to work together and grow. After nearly three years, we are finding ourselves more and more confident in what we’re doing. It seems there are a lot of people who feel connected with us – it feels like we are succeeding every day.
Who do you think is leading D&B and jungle in the positive direction?
Lenzman: Satl, Echo Brownm, Note, Styke & Channell are making some gems. EQ50 and 1985 are great. Halogenix and GLXY both never miss… Nia Archives blowing up has also been great to see.
And to see Metalheadz still going strong after 30 years is an inspiration. Kool FM have been doing some cool things. And last but not least, big love to my NQ crew
Redeyes: I love that new scene with Channell, Note, Kublai, Zar, 2b.Frank, Aya Dia, Clusion, Changer, Trail, everyone at NQ, and many many others. Also people like Sully and Tim Reaper, and people who are still doing their thing like Calibre, Lenzman, DJ Flight and EQ50, DRS and Space Cadet.
Lastly, a special mention to Egregore Radio from Toulouse, doing lovely things for a while now, as a label and everything.
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