You would be almost forgiven if TMSV doesn’t ring a bell straight away. But with more than fifteen years in the game, tours in Europe, the United States and Canada, this Dutch artist knows a thing or two about the crafting (and grafting) of soundscapes that leave an undeniable impression on one’s brain.
For some of you, recalling his thoroughly rinsed deep dubstep tracks, like ‘Haze’ and ‘Modification’ is sufficient. More recently, the Utrecht-based TMSV, who also releases jungle and drum and bass, is responsible for the Perfect Records imprint, and still is laying down the law with the undeniably gripping basslines in ‘Unforeseen Consequences’ and the frantic, yet so sonically appealing ‘Lizard Brain’ together with Danny Scrilla.
In anticipation of the second compilation from Perfect Records, coming August 2, we discussed TMSV’s mindset on writing music and running a label. Read on for an extensive piece with valuable and relatable insights, offering perspective on how to stay relevant and grounded in a highly competitive domain. And thanks to TMSV’s honesty, little to nothing is left unsaid.
How are you doing now? You have been on holiday recently…
Yes, I was with my partner, our daughter, my friends, their partners and children. We were all on holiday- camping and sitting in a cottage, hanging out in France.
Yes, going out into nature for a bit too?
Yes, a bit. With kids, you’re a bit limited in your movement. So you relax a little more, and that’s fine too.
What you do regularly hear from people with kids is that you get a kind of external motivation. Because your own ego doesn’t bother you so much any more. Is that recognisable?
Yes, the funny thing is, when she was born, from that moment on I started to feel things a lot more. Emotions became much stronger.
That, combined with having to do a lot of things that come naturally – taking care of a child. It comes naturally; you get up, have sleepless nights and so on – the priorities involved – also translate to the rest of your life.
The combination of those two things: I know much better what I want and do not want. I think more about that and am much more proactive about it.
And ultimately that does have a positive impact on your work too…
Yes, at the beginning, of course, in terms of time and energy, it’s not very conducive. But it is a bit clearer now, where my motivation comes from. There is also more to draw from in terms of inspiration. Not so much directly from my daughter, but life gets a bit more real.
You mentioned that finding the right balance between work and personal life has become more important to you…
Well, I also have a job now that’s not freelancing. It’s part-time. Because of that, I have learned this year for the first time to go on holiday without sneaking into work and being on social media and things like that.
It’s very nice. To have some peace and quiet, and also listen to music without having to think about how that music relates to me as an artist or to my career. And being able to really take that time to decompress for a while, to completely relax.
To not be at work at all – and be able to live life, without that weird kind of half online, half by yourself in the studio, where you mostly have the input of those things, instead of the input of real life.
Can you remember the moment when you really knew: ‘I’m going all the way with making music’? What triggered that at the time?
The funny thing is: I didn’t realise that until later. I fell into making music professionally. And it happened by accident. That led to releases and some level of recognition. I wasn’t very well known then, but it was natural for me to get into that scene and get gigs.
I wasn’t prepared for that at all, somewhat pulled in by what happened, without knowing what I really wanted in life. Furthermore, I was studying law then. Eventually, I finished law school, I got my master’s degree in Public International Law.
And after that, I thought: wait a minute, I’m going to keep making music. And I’m going to take it seriously by getting my visa for America; at least making sure I can keep doing this in my life.
So with varying intensity that did stay. At one moment I had a job on the side, and at another moment I didn’t, or I freelanced.
But at least there’s been gradual progress. I can’t remember the moment I realised it, but I can remember a period when I thought how stupid it was that I didn’t know this about myself sooner. Even though, at times, I also felt like: who am I to do so? Or how did this come to be?
The imposter syndrome?
Yes, I think it’s also inherent in the musician.
And creative arts… questioning everything…
Yes, and also, the moment you’re not successful, some people might think you can do this, but then you can’t do it at all. And the moment you do have success, then it’s like: who am I to have that success? Because it could well be over just as quickly.
You sound very down-to-earth…
Yes, I think for music or for art I’m a bit too down-to-earth at times.
Perfect Records, the second compilation, will be out soon. Does it resonate with focusing on the strategic view meanwhile, while staying relevant? How do you see that?
On the one hand, sure, it’s the slightly cynical factor of re-releasing things, so that they can be included in the algorithm again, for example, on Spotify. That’s what people often do. And I figured I should give these tracks another chance. Not for streaming revenue, but to get them heard.
Together with Yuri, my label manager, we decided to do a summer break for once. To have some time to think about the direction of the label, give artists, myself, but also Danny Scrilla and Arkham Sound, the space to think about the directions and work on new things, without these necessarily having to be mastered and finished the week after.
And those compilations are a good way to make sure that people do still have something to listen to. Because I’m really under no illusion that everyone has heard everything on Perfect Records, you know? Even if they know the label.
On your ambitions as label boss. How did that come about?
Firstly, because it’s pretty difficult to have an ongoing thing with labels in the genres I make. Sure, there are some people who are with labels for a long time and have regular contacts there and release something regularly. It never really worked out that way for me. Whatever level you’re at, though, you shouldn’t really count on an answer from a label or from a big DJ or whatever.
It’s not that I’m resentful or don’t feel appreciated, but I don’t have the attention span and the brain to have a list of tunes just waiting until others decide to do something with them.
Those tunes hit oblivion because then I’m already working on the next one or on a whole different style. So they never come out, or maybe after five years on Bandcamp one-off.
So at a certain point, none of it gets released for a while. Or very little, anyway. And then I don’t have control over what my sound is, because once a tune comes out on a label, and people like it, I might already be working on very different things.
And on Perfect Records, I have the outlet to completely decide what I finish and what comes out right after. It helps me to define myself as an artist, for better or worse, but at least while keeping my output consistent, because that’s important too.
What have been the valuable lessons from being a label boss?
The valuable lesson is mainly that it doesn’t matter what the reaction is to an individual release. I think that’s a good lesson for any artist.
Anyone who wants to start their own thing or has doubts about it: one of the nicest things about having your own label, or at least releasing your music yourself with branding and artwork, is knowing you’re doing everything you can before it goes out into the world.
And if nobody listens still, it’s very good to have something at least half-finished for the next month. Or even having many months in advance planned out or completely finished.
Then, if the response isn’t what I’d hoped, I don’t have to pull the motivation out of my toes to do it again next month. Maybe the month after that will be a little better, and the month after that could be much better, or worse. But you’re putting out your art.
Even then, when the releases don’t pan out, it doesn’t matter as much, because you had already planned for it, and your creative output is a lot less dependent on motivation and your self-image as an artist.
Surely, a piece of your heart, soul and time has been poured into that
Yes, if you keep starting from scratch, you just keep running into that wall. Because, for an artist in this day and age, self-managed or as a solo artist, it’s demotivating all too often and for almost everyone.
And you’re such a small fish in such a big sea, so much so, that you don’t have to count on people paying attention to your music. And that sucks, but that’s not a reason not to do it, because literally everyone has to deal with that. There’s so much music being made. You can’t count on people paying attention to your music specifically, no matter how good you are.
You don’t have to force motivation. Through experience, you learn when to let go instead of pushing creativity too hard. It’s not like building muscle, where more effort always means more strength. Sometimes, you need to give yourself space to process things unconsciously and get into a flow
But comparing it to strength training is also useful because, as an artist, you need to keep creating and releasing work to develop. You have to stay active, but also know when to rest. You need to understand your body, career, style, and mind well enough to recognize when you need a break. Deciding to rest before burnout is crucial; it should be a proactive choice, not forced by exhaustion.
You’re juggling a lot of things, and now your time has become much more important, so what has helped you lately to be able to take that next step for yourself?
Well, look, lately my life has revolved in large part around being a relatively new father. And part of that is that at some point you can come to the conclusion: I want to combine my creative outlet and being an artist with more stability.
That felt like a huge L to me at first. You give up some freedom. It feels like saying, I’ve failed as a full-time artist, or that it’s less serious now.
But I’ve come to realise that I can ask myself the question more often: what do I really want? And to what extent can I now switch my mindset to making music and releasing things I like and support, without always having to think about, how does this fit into a DJ set, or how does this relate to what I did before, for instance?
Can you say then that you are now more grounded in your feelings and intuition rather than time?
Yeah, I guess you can say that. I’m also kind of at a moment now where I actually have the luxury of having the time to think about my music and what I enjoy about making it.
The way I usually work is I make nothing for a while then when I’m about to miss the deadline Yuri and I have set, I suddenly get motivated and inspired to finish a few of the approximately one million sketches I have lying around. And most often, those turn out to be very club-focused and functional. And most often, those turned out to be very club-focused and functional.
I really like a lot of it, but it also hampers me, because I then only have such short periods and that motivation is only in such short bursts. This also causes me to have less space to develop myself and think about your ulterior artistic direction of things.
I feel that now I can create a bit more overview and say a bit more of, this is how much time I have, this is what I’ve been doing recently and this is what I want to do most. And I can do that now, because I’ve arranged my life so that I’m not 100% dependent on making music and releasing it and gigs and things like that.
You mentioned that the focus for now mainly will be on Perfect Records. Can you give us some insights into your plans?
Well, I’d prefer, but that’s a relatively new idea, for at least the rest of the year, I do want to spend a lot of it trying new things. And hopefully, make an album out of that.
Which could then also come out on Perfect Records. That’s the number one contender for output, of course.
And new things, what may that mean when you say new things?
Well, I try to divide my production a bit into two directions now. The club direction and the somewhat more listening direction. And I want to experiment a lot more with what I can already do and what I already know. And see if I can expand my musical identity a bit more.
But without necessarily going to increasingly functional, better-mixed club music.
It can be sound system music, but it can also become accessible music that normal people can dance to, who are not necessarily into underground stuff!
You know what, there is so much to discover, for which I need some time and some freedom. There’s a lot of music I listen to that has nothing at all to do with all the dark, serious stuff that usually comes out of me. And it’s broadening my horizons and actually turning that into a project like an album or an EP.
I like the idea of that. Whether I will do that as TMSV or under another name, I have yet to see. But that’s not important for now.
Can you shed some light on the upcoming EP with Danny Scrilla?
As for working with Danny, sometimes we do that very quickly and sometimes very slowly. Right now we’re doing it fairly slowly for a while.
One thing we like when we collab is come up with a specific way of working, to make things as easy and frictionless as possible for ourselves. Last time we did that by sending stems back and forth with all the drums in one file, all the bass in one file, all the mids in one file and so forth. And cutting and editing that and making tunes out of that. That worked really well, because it allowed us to make things at lightning speed.
And now we made a template in Ableton with exactly the same software, exactly the same settings and things like that.
So that we can always work on projects in sync. Because then we can, no matter how much or how little time we have, always work on things very quickly and easily.
So hopefully within a few months we’ll have a new EP. I love working with Danny, I think we make good stuff together.
In the end, I think it’s that control or freedom not to put a date on it right away. That, on the other hand, sometimes has a motivating effect?
It can indeed be very counterproductive if you set a date, and it doesn’t happen. Or there is very little time or space or motivation. Then it becomes very difficult to make it happen.
Because at some point you hit a wall. Or you stop calling each other. Because it always has to be about work or something.
So take it easy. And of course, I shouldn’t forget to plug Arkham Sound either. Because we’re also working on a new EP for him. He had taken a break from making music for a while, and now he is back in full production. And there are some really cool tunes in between. So we’re working on a new EP again.
Anything else on the cards for Perfect Records for the near future?
More music from myself, the usual suspects and maybe a few new additions to the roster – that’s all I can say for now. If you’re not familiar with the label, check out the new best of compilations, called MISC 001 and MISC 002 and make sure you follow us everywhere to stay in the loop.
Are there really recurring moments when you really turn everything off for a while?
Yes, I do really need that. At least, my life does hang together with strategies and attempts to give my head some rest. For myself, for the people around me, and also music. Going on holiday and not being on a phone and checking things all the time helps a lot.
That’s also a bit of an eye-opener. Last year I went to Edinburgh with some friends. Then we realised, when we were on the road for an hour and a half, that I had left my phone at home. Then I spent a long weekend without my phone. That was also really amazing. I felt so much better.
What I do in particular is periodically pay a lot of attention to my health. Which often includes going offline for a while or doing as little social media as possible. I took very good care of myself for a while, and lost 20 kilos. I went to the gym a lot, too. Watched my diet very carefully. Of course, with that also comes a kind of peace of mind. A kind of pride and certainty about your own existence.
It’s a lot of things like that, but my brain is not very suited to routine. It’s always a new idea I have to follow up on. I think many people will identify with that. You have to keep looking for new motivation and a new app in which to manage your life. A new diet and a new way to exercise.
Let’s talk about something like a creative block. Is that still something you have at times? If so, how do you handle it these days?
I deal with that these days the way I’ve always dealt with it: at first, to keep running into the wall. And thinking, why can’t I do this anymore? Have I ever been able to do this? What the hell am I doing? Why does anyone take me seriously? And why am I opening Ableton?
And then I go watch YouTube tutorials or something and get motivated. But it still doesn’t work out. And then at some point, whether I realize it or it comes naturally, a solution pops up and that motivates me a lot.
But it’s something that suddenly clicks in my head – not from total focus, more like from trying to find your way in the darkness. Until something shocks me, until that spark comes. And it all happens at once. All this experience and habits I have in producing. How to make a good tune. All the analysis and all the formal stuff then actually comes in second place. I always learn from it, but that’s never what ultimately brings me back from my creative block. It’s always something weird.
But then again, totally letting it go instead, wouldn’t that be better at times like that?
It’s a good question. Because, if I were to let it go completely. Then maybe it will never come. Because then I’m never on it. That’s also really one of those things famous writers and artists advise, which always appeals to me. You have to sit at your work table or your studio.
And you have to start. And if it doesn’t work, whatever. But if it suddenly does succeed… Then you are there and succeed. You have to give yourself that space.
Your inspiration – you can believe that you create it yourself. Or that it touches you. But whichever of the two: when you’re at your studio computer and motivation strikes, you’re there, and you can work with it. If inspiration comes, while you’re in the car or away, then you can’t do anything. And when you’re back at your desk, it can be gone…
You mentioned waiting for other labels, for example. That you are more conscious these days on when to draw the line. It is and remains human work. Because on the one hand, you have your principles. But occasionally situations do require you to be flexible. Where do you stand on that?
I am always flexible. But also aware of the limited time I have. And I easily forget things when they’re not right in front of me.
So I have to do more things as they happen. So when I finish some music, and I want to put it out there. Then I have to do that. Because I feel that way. And I’m proud of it, it makes me go the extra mile. And actually finish it as a project, it is more significant work.
When I send a tune to a label, it’s always sort of stuck in the demo stage a little bit. Even if that’s just in my head. It’s not as finished as it could be, because who knows if it’s ever going to get a full release.
But if I can have this music online in a few days or weeks, there is a deadline. It has to be what I want it to be. That’s why I spend my time differently.
It’s been a long time since I got tired of making tunes, sending them to a label and not hearing anything back. The opposite is true, too, by the way. Plenty of labels have asked me for music, and they never got a reply, because sometimes I’m unable to reply to an email, and it gets lost in my inbox. Either way, I’ve realized this isn’t the way I want to spend my time as an artist. I want to have a degree of control over what I release.
Ultimately, it’s also a matter of self-respect
Yes, absolutely.
Insightful stuff. On to a few statements – to see what your opinion is: ‘Dubstep is making an international comeback.’
Do think America plays a role in that. A lot of guys from America who have come up with the brostep side are very much into combining that with the deep side. And combining a bit more of the LA beat sound design with old school dubstep and making references to that. But also, there are quite a lot of young talents who are doing all kinds of cool stuff too.
I have to say that I don’t keep a super close eye on dubstep, but I do notice that when I do start listening to new dubstep, that between the standard, say 1,000 promos with boring stuff, there’s really pretty cool shit in between. So you could well be right, but conclusively I can’t say.
Another statement, can you relate to this? ‘At this point, I actually can’t imagine life without music’
I find that difficult because I cannot imagine a life without music. And not in the sense that it would become very depressing, but more due to my relationship with making music, and therefore also with listening to it, it is complicated, so to speak.
I do very often have very mixed feelings when listening to music because there are a lot of kinds of analysis and feelings involved. Which are not necessarily very good or very conducive to enjoying the music. This isn’t always the case, of course, I spend plenty of time enjoying music without thinking about how it relates to me or my career.
If music suddenly stopped existing, I think I’d survive. For a little while at least. I’d probably realize how important it actually is to me after about two weeks of just listening to podcasts. I’d also have way too much free time if I had no reason to be in the studio, and that can’t be good.
Thank you for your honesty. One more to wrap it up: ‘You don’t always get exactly what you strive for. But being able to be at peace with that is the key to being happy.’
Yes, I think so. I had my own disappointments, of course, like my Visa for the US expired during COVID. I also had a lot of moments where I waited for years for a very important release, which then turned out to be quite disappointing.
Moments when you set yourself up for some kind of recognition, esteem or appreciation and some kind of renewed motivation for music.
Or a huge release doesn’t go through and doesn’t do well – or a collaboration doesn’t turn out as awesome as you’d hoped after all.
All in all, there are only a handful of things that I look back on thinking ‘damn, that sucked’. But in general, I think independent artists have to deal with an unlimited supply of tiny disappointments.
If you can’t shift your mindset to dealing with that, then at some point you still have to pick it up. And if you won’t, you don’t last as an artist. You so often don’t get royalties paid out. So often things go wrong, contracts being breached and so on.
So often things don’t work out musically or artistically or whatever. At some point, you have to assume that things don’t work out. And that really sucks. That really doesn’t work well for your motivation and how enthusiastic you are about making music. But you have to deal with it.
Anyway, my personal experience is that I couldn’t care less about how things should work out for me in comparison with others. Or how it should traditionally work for an artist. That letting go, that has done me a lot of good. I think a lot of people are far ahead of me in that.
But I also think a lot of people look back a lot more bitterly on their career in music. Which didn’t turn out to be what they wanted.
Because, looking back now, I have to add, my career in music is actually exactly what I wanted. People listen to my music. And I found a way to have a very nice, stable life with my partner and my daughter.
Great answers, you didn’t hold back. Any particular gigs worth mentioning?
Right now, I have the rest of the summer off, but I have ADE this year and will be performing at the event by Love For Low Frequencies – the label from Nymfo. People can catch me playing there in October.
READ
